Exploring Eleusis, the World’s First Legal Luxury Psychedelic Research Resort

Richard Zwicky: Hi everyone, it's Richard Wiki with High on Healthy, the show where we know there's no one path to healthy, so we explore them all. If you haven't subscribed yet, please do so on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Today's conversation is at the intersection of medicine, research, ethics,

Kyle Woessner: Excuse me.

Richard Zwicky: And human experience. And for the discussion, I'm joined by Charles Patty, who is the chief of growth at Elusus, the world's first legal luxury psychedelic research immersion retreat or resort. And that's part of what we're going to get to. Charles, Welcome aboard the show.

Kyle Woessner: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you very much, Richard. Yes.

Richard Zwicky: No, it's great to have you on. I was really excited when I saw the write up about Elusus and it just is opening up next month and

Kyle Woessner: So, our first emergence that we're going to be offering to the public are on March 18th and March 25th.

Richard Zwicky: It's on Saint Vincent and the Grenadians. Why did you choose that spot?

Kyle Woessner: So, we are located on the island of Beckway and SVG or St. Vincent and the Grandians. And the reason is because we actually have a license from the government down there to utilize psychedelic compounds for research and for research purposes where we get to use them and offer them to the public to have these experiences and collect a lot of data. That's going to be very important.

Richard Zwicky: That's really cool. And the government there, which psychedelics have they authorized for use? Because every island is different.

Kyle Woessner: So we have a license to utilize all the psychedelic compounds.

Richard Zwicky: Fantastic. So, you'll be able to do a lot of broad-based research.

Kyle Woessner: So it's pardon me it is a luxury resort

Richard Zwicky: When people hear about, luxury psychedelic retreat, they're immediately think of luxury resorts, exclusive getaways, exclusivity is a big thing, and wellness tourism. What is Ulysus and what is it not?

Kyle Woessner: Where people can come and take part in these experiences and we can collect data to do research. It is not your typical Iawasa ceremony where people would be doing medicine in groups of people. This is personalized medical care it's per individual. This is supervised by a medical team. Vital signs will be collect taken you will be monitored at all times to make sure that people are safe where we're using pharmaceutical grade medicine that comes from a GMP certified laboratory in Canada. And so the thing is that this is really like a new paradigm of the way that these medicines are going to be used for therapeutic uses. I mean and we're not just limited to that. So people can actually come down because they want to tap into the higher states of consciousness and go explore these different realms that these modalities can take you to. And it's really an exciting thing that this is a dream of mine that I've been manifesting to fruition for a long time and not just me personally the entire team of Elus and so we're all very excited and honored to be a part of this movement.

Richard Zwicky: No, it's fantastic. And I want to touch on you mentioned the medical care that goes along with it. We've had a few people who are doing different retreats and they have ranges of what they have and some have two psychologists on hand for each patient. Some have one for a group of five and so on. What's your model?

Kyle Woessner: So this is going to be medically supervised and research is going to be being done but it will not feel like that. This is going to be very non-invasive. I mean the molecule we're launching with and the protocol that we're actually offering first is going to be the DMTX protocol created by Dr. Andrew Gallamore and who's actually part of our team and basically pardon me for a second because I lost my train of thought what can you repeat the question one more time?

Richard Zwicky: Take we'll go back on that one then.

Kyle Woessner: Ever got it.

Richard Zwicky: So we've had a couple of different presenters on the show who are organizing retreats in different areas and some have a very extensive number of doctors on hand that one mentioned they have about two psychologists for every patient. Others seem to have one for a group. What's your model like? Because you mentioned you have a strong emphasis on the medical community participating.

Kyle Woessner: So the medicine is going to be administered by an anesthesiologist.

Richard Zwicky: Awesome.

Kyle Woessner: Nursing staff will be present. This doesn't just start on the island though. So, there's a complete medical intaking screening process that people go through before they even come out to Elusus. The first step of going out there is doing a medical intake with our nurse practitioner Bianca Abbott. She's incredible. I've known Bianca since we were kids and all of the sudden we've kind of met back up in the healing space and she's been in the medicine space for a number of years. The second thing after the medical intake process is they would do a psychiatric evaluation with Dr. Andrew Ferber who is our head psychiatrist. Dr. Fervor has been a meditator for over 50 years. His first LSD experience was in during a clinical trial. He was friends with Ramdas and Timothy Liry. So Dr. Ferber is an absolute legend when it comes to this space. As people know we are utilizing the DMTX protocol which was created by Dr.

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Kyle Woessner: Andrew Gallammore, he is a part of our team. We're also working with Dr. Chris Timberman who led the Imperial College of London studies. So, this isn't anything new where we're not just jumping into this willy-nilly. It's like we're really working with of the best when it comes to this space. And not from an egotistical standpoint. It's almost like existence curated this all to come together so we could really make something special. Onsite people will have care trackers or they will be monitored for vital signs and things like that. The medicine is administered by an anesthesiologist. There'll be nursing staff present. If I already said that I apologize but we are creating that safe container of space. As many people know, the best outcomes on psychedelic medicines happen when people can surrender to these experiences. And knowing that you're in a space where you're being taken care of and you're being monitored and you're going to be safe will allow people to really journey off into these experiences. Before people come out to elus though, there will be pre-integration virtually done with one of our integration specialists. Most of the integration specialists that we're working with have been certified through being true to you, which I personally believe is one of the best psychedelic integration coaching companies in the US. After people come out to eluc and post integration before they go into these experiences to help them process after the experiences. We will have psychological help on site. So we're working with a psychologist that will be there to work with people after they come out of these experiences. And by no means does it stop there. After people leave the site of elusis and go back home, there are more virtual integration sessions that are being done. And so we are holding people's hand through the process of this from before they come out to the resort to after they leave. Mhm.

Richard Zwicky: And That's whole safety first, but also the pre-experience and the post experience really goes towards when people knows it increases the comfort level and really dramatically improves the likelihood of a successful outcome. You mentioned DMTX. What are the protocols and what is specifically when you're applying DMTX through your program? What are you trying to research and what as far as what are you hoping for outcomes and which conditions are you specifically targeting?

Kyle Woessner: So we're basically doing a safety study on DMTX and this is really so we can gather data and collect information where people have the option of wearing a biometric data collecting wristband before they come out to elus. It'll be tracking heart rate, stress levels, sleep patterns, things like that. They'll wear it before on site and then after they leave for a month. And then this will help us collect data on the safety profile, efficacy of the medicine, show positive things that have happened to people. When people take part in this research, they actually will have access to their own data too. So they get to see what happens through the process. We're also working with a company or we're utilizing a company's headphones that actually monitor brain waves as well. So we're going to be monitoring what happens to brain waves when people are in the actual DMTX experience. And then my personal favorite thing that people can take part in is collecting video testimonials. I mean people get to go in have these experiences, sit in front of a camera, talk about what they learned, what they experienced, if there was entity contact, what like was said and really collect the data and information that comes back from these other realms, And this will be utilized for social media platforms. We are creating a documentary where clips will be put into the documentary. But this is a really important part or aspect in my personal opinion because I really think that this is the way that we gain public acceptance and help break the taboos and stigmas associated with the medicine. No, I love the science and I love the data and we are about the research but I feel personally that it's the stories like people sitting down 100%.

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Richard Zwicky: It is the stories which make the difference, And it's the experiences and how people can come out of it and recount to others how it changed them,

Kyle Woessner: So I have another psychedelic company in Southwest Florida where we do ketamine therapy, right? And so the thing is that I had a 17-year-old kid and he was hooked on opiates and mom was at her wits end with him and she didn't know what to do. We ended up getting him clean and sober. He's thriving. He's doing amazing. And it worked so well that mom ended up doing the treatments, right? Even though she was against psychedelic therapy and wasn't into this but didn't know what to do for him. And then after she did it, it completely changed her life. And so capturing her story on film and getting her to tell this reached all of the other mothers out there that were struggling with a son or a daughter that was going through similar situations. And so at Elus giving this opportunity for people that are professionals they're CEOs of companies or they're scientists or doctors or these kind of status of what they're doing for a living come out there and have these experiences. Now all of the sudden people are like, " wait a second. This isn't just a drug." And people aren't just going out here and getting high. This is actually a real spiritual experience. People are actually gaining information. I mean listen,

Richard Zwicky: There.

Kyle Woessner: I talk about it. The reason that I started my first psychedelic company was from an NNDMT experience. And so I personally went through a lot of trials and tribulations and over 20 years of substance abuse issues and I quit a severe opiate addiction from an NNDMT experience that I had years ago. I went to another realm and there was these beings and they were cheering and chanting for me and telling me that it wasn't too late and that I could get my life together because I was supposed to help people heal. And that night I got myself some suboxin, which is like an opiate blocker, and an ounce of cannabis. And I locked myself in a bedroom for a week and I detoxed myself and I quit doing opiates that night. And so that was a message.

Richard Zwicky: H that's and that's wonderful then that you've never looked back.

Kyle Woessner: But it was I knew that this was to me and I'm not here to say these experiences are real or not. I just followed the messages and then Yes.

Richard Zwicky: It doesn't matter if they were or not they worked. It's actually what helps us get across that line. Right.

Kyle Woessner: And so I was in the electronics industry about seven and a half years ago working for an international PR firm and I went to Mexico for a trade show and I was just out at dinner with a bunch of seauite executives and all I could talk about was DMT and psychedelics and everybody's just like what is this guy talking about but it's all I wanted to talk about. It was my passion. It saved my life. And so I came back from that trade show and I sat down with my wife Christina and I said listen I was like I'm not supposed to be doing this. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing, but I was like, but I think if I got some DMT, it might be able to help me get some clarity in my life. And it was like this synchronicity where I didn't even look for it and it landed in my lap within a week's time. I ended up using it and I had an otherworldly experience where I made contact with more entities and I was on a ship and they were showing me around and showed me outside the window where Vishnu was dejing energy fields over all of the planets. And all of a sudden, I get this massive download of information and it says you're supposed to quit your jobs and take a leap of faith and start a company that's going to help people heal, but it's not really a leap of faith because you're in divine synchronicity with the universe and everything's going to be okay. And so I went up sick.

Richard Zwicky: And I say that's an amazing message to receive.

Kyle Woessner: Go ahead. Go ahead.

Richard Zwicky: H how do you design an environment that supports that type of experience without overwhelming participants? All right.

Kyle Woessner: So it's the support. And so listen at elusis all of the team members are actually going through the protocol. So people are going to have had these experiences that are integrating people. We are going to be there to support and hold people's hand through the process of this. And so the pre and post integration is absolutely vital to the outcome of these kind of experiences. And being able to sit with somebody from that experiential standpoint where you've been on that frequency with the medicine and you can share that space with them and let them know that hey, these are real experiences and it's okay and we can talk about anything. That's going to make people feel more comfortable and it's going to have a much better outcome than if people hadn't had the experiences and they were just trying to listen to somebody.

Richard Zwicky: And when I saw the name Elusus I recognized that it ties back to the illusion mysteries which is all about how people from all walks of life can undergo transformative rights. What does that story mean for you in connection to the retreat?

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Kyle Woessner: I mean listen, there's a good possibility that the movers and shakers of society back then were going and having these experiences and they were tapping into higher states of consciousness and realizing universal truths and they were bringing it back and forming and elevating society in one way or another because of these transformative experiences and so for me personally and I'm not speaking for anybody else in the company but this is my personal mission with psychedelics and what we're doing at elusis this is about collecting data and it's about getting information about molecules and helping break the taboos and stigmas, mental health, substance abuse issues, all of that. But at the end of the day, for me, this is about the transformation of humanity to a higher state of consciousness. And I really feel that when you're giving somebody a legal, safe, optimal setting to come and have these transcended experiences, now we can bring the movers and shakers of the world out there and world leaders and people that have massive platforms that don't want to operate in a gray area and they are scared to talk about this kind of stuff. And now all of the sudden they don't have to be anymore because nobody's breaking any laws and we're giving people a platform to share what they've learned and be a beacon of light for the rest of the universe and the collective in general.

Richard Zwicky: And so many of these so many psychedelics are rooted in traditional cultures. A lot of, indigenous native iawaska ceremonies and the shaman le ceremonies that are across North America. First off, how do you balance honoring ancient wisdom with what you're doing? And how will modern neuroscience validate what ancient cultures have been trying to tell us?

Kyle Woessner: I think that this is where ancient wisdom meets where science, and I think that both are incredibly important and necessary. By no means at elusis are we trying to say that ceremonial administration of these medicines hasn't been transformative and hasn't done incredible things for the world because we all know it has. But one of the things that we're really in alignment with our mission at elusis is to bring the medical aspect into this so we can make this more digestible for the masses. I mean because that's really what needs to be done. There's a lot of people out there that I've talked to when I'm, talking to people that are coming out to elus and they're "Listen, I don't feel comfortable and I don't feel safe going out and doing an Iaska ceremony in the middle of the jungle. I want to make sure that if something happens to me that I'm going to be taken care of and supported." And so, listen, I'm a fan of all of that. Don't think that us at Elusus are not fans of all of the work that's been done for eons with these healing modalities, but one of our real things is that we are going to be collecting all of the data to substantiate all of this stuff that we all know works anyways.

Richard Zwicky: And doing that carries a lot of responsibility

Kyle Woessner: If you're in this industry or if you're in alignment with these modalities, we all already know. We just need to prove it out. And this is what we're going to do at a loose

Richard Zwicky: Because you're working with powerful compounds but you're also one you're bridging the concept of exclusivity because of the connotation of a luxury travel with the traditions. How would you respond to criticism and how do you put the right guardrails in place? Because some people are doing projects and they're not putting the right guard rules in place.

Kyle Woessner: So I want to break the taboo out there that luxurious means not accessible to every okay and so just because Elus is a luxury resort which it's really absolutely breathtaking and it's the most optimal I mean imagine thank you and

Richard Zwicky: I've seen the pictures. It looks beautiful.

Kyle Woessner: So imagine being in hyperspace just one minute and gathering universal information, integrating in a beautiful room with big couches and then being able to go for a walk on the beach within an hour after that. It's like we have different tiers of packages that are off that are available for people. So we have a higher tier which is a longer all-incclusive stay at Elusus where it's six days, five nights. There are three medicine experiences that people will be doing research with while they're out at that longer stay. Everything like I said is inclusive. But then we are all also offering a essential immersion which is four days three nights and that package right it has two research medicine experiences that are inclusive with that but that package starts at $9500 US and so you can still have which in all fairness isn't very far off when you're talking about the different kind of retreats that are out there and offering these kind of experiences. And in all fairness, I mean, listen, this is very different than Iaska and I'm not like saying anything bad about Iawaska.

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Kyle Woessner: What I'm saying is that this is pharmaceutical grade medicine that's created in a GMP certified laboratory that in itself would almost take a premium price to Not to mention you're in luxurious private villas shared villa options, but all locally sourced organic meals that are prepared. It's all inclusive and it's all there. So believe it or not, we actually look at the price point for what we're offering and it's way beyond what the price tag actually

Richard Zwicky: There's definitely value there. I know people who spend more than that on a 5day holiday to some retreats. So, that's just when you start factoring it in, you look at the cost completely differently. What do you hope participants who participate in the project and will carry forward into their lives but also be able to contribute from a research perspective? No.

Kyle Woessner: What do I want for these people?

Richard Zwicky: What do you hope which is I guess you want but your hope for what they're going to carry forward in their lives and contribute long term in to the research.

Kyle Woessner: I want people to come out here and have experiences that are going to completely transform their existence. Listen, if it wasn't for this molecule, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you right now. I believe that the medicine, and this is my personal belief. I'm not making a blanket statement of what the beliefs of elus is, but I truly believe that this molecule taps people into higher states of consciousness where they can activate other parts of the brain that might normally be dormant sometimes. There's a lot of neurological healing and neuroplasticity that's happening. So, a journey. It's not just a trip. And I hope that people come out there and get the answers and the seekers get the messages that they were hoping for that's going to change their life. I mean, listen, this made my life magical in a way that had never been before. And I got to see that there was much more to the world than just met my eyes in this 3D reality that we're living in. And I'm having this conversation with you right now. I truly believe, and this is just my personal opinion. I'm not trying to sell this on anybody, but from my experience with medicines that we are all one collective consciousness and separation is an illusion and I am everything and you are everything and We're just pretending that we're not. And so that's a very liberating realization for people to have and then all of the sudden you can really take that power into yourself and put it forward. Most people are operating from a place of fear almost all of the time.

Richard Zwicky: It will be I think anybody

Kyle Woessner: And what psychedelic medicines did for me is it shifted me from operating from fear to love. And so showing me that I am a limitless being and the only limitations that I have are the ones that I place upon myself. And I think that if other people get to have an experience similar to mine in that aspect that this world is going to be a completely different place.

Richard Zwicky: Who opens their mind and starts exploring and accepting and learning self-acceptance is a better person and that's one of the challenges we're very self-judgmental and very non-accepting of ourselves. And that's something that psychedelics helps us overcome. Which brings me to the point you mentioned the 4-day and the six day retreats. How many treatments you go through?

Kyle Woessner: So on the longer the all-incclusive stay there will be three medicine experiences that people will have for research and then there will be two that will be a part of the shorter stay and so the time duration is a little bit different on the shorter stay. But I mean ultimately people can still come out in a shorter sense of time and have two amazing transcendent experiences where they'll be helping us collect the data but also transforming their lives.

Richard Zwicky: And people who are using psilocybin tend to notice that they have a huge impact but they often need to do another journey after six months. What do you look at longitudinally around your project program?

Kyle Woessner: So honest, so one of the things that I can tell you that I've learned about being involved in psychedelics for decades and what I've noticed professionally owning a facility in Florida over the last six and a half years is that there's no box to fit anybody in. There really is no one sizefits everybody. I think that some people will come out and do these sessions and they'll never do psychedelics again. I think some people will do it and then they'll be like, what, I think that this was the most amazing experience and I learned so much and I want to learn more and they'll become more of a seeker and they'll go after these experiences and really try to gather as much information as they can. I know for me personally I had an intention of quitting my opiate addiction and I did DMT and all of the sudden I didn't do opiates anymore.

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Kyle Woessner: So when we're talking about substance abuse issues, I think that it could be a oneanddone scenario for people, and so I said, there's really no box. And that's what psychedelic medicines have taught me in many ways is that the proverbial box that we try to pit fit people in it's an illusion and it doesn't exist. So one thing that I'm very passionate about is empowering people to be in charge of their own wellness and healing journey. And they'll know what's good for them.

Richard Zwicky: They will and people know what they need once they're on the right path. That's the next step.

Kyle Woessner: And just for clarity I don't use psychedelics anymore and in years. I haven't taken psychedelics in five and a half six years something like that. What I teach people is or what I preach is meditation, breath work, healthy lifestyle changes, eating healthy, treating ourselves like the extension of the divine that we truly are. And so it's like once people get what they're looking from having these medicine experiences now implementing all of these healthy lifestyle practices into place is really what makes these experiences stick and so the depression part that you asked me about the six months with psilocybin I think that there's a distinct possibility that it could even go much longer for people as long as they start implementing all of these healthy lifestyle practices into their life and so it's like I have my anti-depressants effects by going to the gym five days a week. I mean, so it's as cliche as it sounds, if nothing changes. If people think they're going to come have a medicine experience and tap in and then tap out and go right back to the way they used to live their life, nothing's going to change in their life. But hopefully this gives people a window and some insight into really making that palatable difference in their daily habits.

Richard Zwicky: There's no easy button for life, And it's actually as we change and as we learn to succeed and do more of it and it's a holistic approach, we get there. Your follow-ups after people have been to the retreat what do they look like? Do they follow for a series of months? How do you plan that?

Kyle Woessner: So like I was saying with the all-inclusive package people will have four virtual integration sessions. They can be done weekly or when people really want them. We don't ever want to make people to do them by a certain time. And so it'll be when they request to have the integration session and then as a part of the shorter or all in I mean the essential package there'll be two virtual integration sessions that are inclusive in that and listen the support never goes away. I mean as being a company where we have to operate a certain way people can add on virtual integration sessions the support will always be there. The team at Elusis this isn't just a business for us. We really do care about people. We want people to have the best outcomes. Nobody's another number to us. Even though we are doing research, it's almost like you're becoming a part of the Elus family.

Richard Zwicky: And for people who want to learn more about Elusus, learn about the opportunity, potentially apply to go there because it is by application, how do they reach out to you? How do they find out more?

Kyle Woessner: So you would go to elusismind m i n d.com and so that would be our website where you can go and you can take a look at everything and see if this is something that might interest you and then listen if anybody wants to contact me personally it's Charles Patty p a ti I'm on Facebook my Instagram handle is Charles N or Carl's and Patty. And so feel free to reach out to me and I'll be happy to help you any way I can. This isn't just another company for me. Literally this is my life's mission. It's my purpose. I found something that really worked for me and completely changed my life and now I've been screaming it from the rooftops as loudly as I possibly can to let other people know about this.

Richard Zwicky: Wonderful. We are out of time for today, Charles, but this has been a really interesting and informative conversation.

Kyle Woessner: Thank you very much, Richard. It's been a pleasure.

Richard Zwicky: Thanks for being on the show and thanks to everybody for listening. I'm Richard Zwicky with High on Healthy and we'll be back again with you soon.